Weight Loss – Does Your Doctor Know Best?
A friend of mine just had her annual check up and everything came back A-ok. She is actually about 1 inch away from having a perfect Venus Index score as well! In other words, girl is in great shape with a great body.
With that said she wants to lose about 3-4 pounds for her ideal Venus Index shape. She can run 10 kms in less than 50 minutes, she’s got great muscle development and is stronger than almost any girl I’ve ever seen in the gym.
Her check up numbers were great across the board and her cardiovascular fitness is at the elite athlete level.
So far this isn’t much of a story, now here is where it gets interesting. She told the nurse that she was interested in losing a bit more weight…at which point the nurse proceeded to tell her: you don’t look like you need to lose any more weight”…and “you’re in a healthy weight range for your height”…and then pointed out that “exercise can be addictive” and handed her body image pamphlets assuming she had some sort of psychological problem.
Of course all of this information is coming from a middle aged female nurse with about 40-50 extra pounds of fat to lose.
My friend just responded with a polite smile with no intention of heeding any of the nurses advice and warnings.
This is good example of how the established medical profession misses the point on issues of exercise and fitness.
First of all its difficult to take weight loss advice from someone who is overweight.
Second, doctors and nurses understand the relative range of what is generally considered a healthy body weight. But this is just a range and estimate for the mass population. Each individual will have a specific body weight that he or she will look their best at, and no doctors chart will necessarily show this. (incidentally that is what the Adonis Index and Venus Index are for…an indication of what we think is your best look for your height)
It’s unfortunate that even a nurse and doctor would discourage someone from trying to lose a couple pounds in an effort to look better and be happier with their body.
It’s as if the nurse had been trained to tell everyone to be happy looking painfully average and that it’s somehow pathological to want to look better than average.
Interestingly, the overweight nurse was much more worried about my friends intention to lose a bit more weight…whereas the physician who was in good shape himself thought nothing of it.
Perhaps a little personal envy and bias even crept into the nurses cautions and warnings to her.
Regardless of the source of the warning, this is still a good example of how mainstream medical professions are not a place to go looking for advice on achieving your best looking shape. It’s just not what they’re trained in.
Don’t let other people talk you out of shooting for your best look, because your best look is going to be a healthy look.
John
24 Responses to “Weight Loss – Does Your Doctor Know Best?”
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March 8th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
OMG!! It makes me SO crazy to hear people think I might be obsessed or have some other kind of stupid addiction because YAH I DO HAVE AN ADDICTION… an addiction to not dying, to looking my best, and being my healthiest.
sigh.
I’ve stopped listening to health professionals almost entirely. Eat right, work out, feel great, look great. The equation is pretty damn simple.
thanks JB
J
March 8th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
It’s interesting how once a person starts to lose a lot of weight and get close to the golden ratios how others will criticize their weight loss efforts. Just yesterday I had someone say to me that I looked “sick” because I am thin. Now, my AI is about 1.5…so that’s not out of proportion. Nor do I look like a “cancer survivor” who is skin and bones, or a person who is legitimately starving. I have about 10% body fat, but this person thought I looked “not well.” She later admitted that she was jealous I lost weight.
This brings up the question, “At what point IS their a legitimate reason to question someone’s weight?” Of course, this cuts both ways…extremely overweight vs. extremely underweight. It appears (from my experience) that those who make a decision to change their weight (and follow through) are more harshly questioned than those who are overweight and do nothing about their weight.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
I hear you loud and clear, John. Most health professionals simply aren’t trained for this sort of thing.
A couple years ago, a close friend of mine who was in med school (he’s now a doctor) and I were talking about healthy living. I asked him a few questions about being more healthy and he just laughed. “I have no idea, man. You’re in great shape.”
Doctors are trained to help sick people. 50 lbs over weight? Broken leg? Terrible cough? Go see a doctor. Want to find out how to bring your body fat down from 12%-11%? You’ll be wasting both your time and the doctor’s time.
In this regard, doctors are no better than the your average co-worker who, upon hearing that you don’t to eat those cookies, tells you not to worry because you are already thin.
March 8th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
what is the venus index ?
March 8th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
Michelle,
The Venus Index is our calculations for the ideal womans body. It’s a ratio of shoulder to waist to hips based on height.
John
March 8th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
When is the venus index coming out, you wouldn’t mind sharing the ratio would you?
March 8th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
It’s funny.
Last year, I was carrying 50lbs of extra fat around and my doc ordered a full physical for me and found out I was diabetic, had hypertension, impaired kidney and liver function, high triglycerides, low HDL…etc.
I did some research, did low carb + intense bodyweight exercises. Lost 50lbs in a year, not diabetic anymore, triglycerides now very low (40), HDL more than doubled, kidney/liver function back to normal, no more hypertension, and I look like an athlete now. Never felt or looked better in my life.
Guess what my doc said?
He said I shouldn’t do low carb and stop eating coconut and red meat and fat and nuts…
I mean, WTF? He put me on all kinds of medication which did squat for years. And now I achieved health without a single drug, and he says I should stop what I’m doing and go back to eating and living my life the same way as when I was on the verge of dying?
March 9th, 2010 at 12:21 am
I agree with you all, I’ve come down from 215lbs to 175lbs & people keep telling me that I look sick & need to add more weight…..WTF!!!! I think I look pretty good, I need to lose another 7-10lbs to reveal the last bit of abs, I have muscles in places I never even knew muscles existed. I always try and encourage them to work on their bodies & overall health, but I don’t think that’s a priority for them. As for me, I want to look my best…….naked & clothed, u live life once man!!
@ EVERYONE I just switched my major to “Exercise Science” at my school so I’m working to be somewhere in the medical field in future & I intend to be the first doctor or whatever to prescribe exercise as a treatment & ill be one of those fit, 6-pack ab doctors, watch out!!!!
March 9th, 2010 at 1:14 am
This happens to me all the time and always annoys me. Just today someone saw how much weight I had lost and said I looked like I was going to blow away and needed to put some meat on my bones. They make it sound like I’m a holocaust victim yet I’m 5’6″ 150lbs (I’m male)Which seems pretty average to me.
Also, I will tell someone I’d like to lose 5-7 more pounds and they are just astonished and so afraid for my health. These people are so concerned that I will lose too much weight and hurt myself. It’s so ironic because getting to 6-8% body fat is so damn hard how the hell am I ever make it to an unhealthy body-weight!
Not to brag or anything but I’ve lost 55lbs (so far)
March 9th, 2010 at 1:22 am
I guess I’m lucky in that my doctor isn’t afraid of going against the establishment when it comes to things like that. He’s still well-grounded in medicine, but stays current enough to know when certain concepts are outdated. He and I even talked about IF once.
March 9th, 2010 at 2:29 am
@john: I’m also really curious about when you’ll be posting anything specific about the Venus Index, except what it is! You’ve been mentioning it several times, and I believe you have quite a few female readers (like myself) who are really curious about it
Would be incredible to have a specific goal like that to work against!
March 9th, 2010 at 5:15 am
I learned pretty fast not to tell anyone that I am going to get rid off this fat. I did not hear single positive comment. Only “why? U are so skinny anyway” and so on. Except my friend who has been 6% bf all his life is ok with my goals
March 9th, 2010 at 5:16 am
It seems overwight people as a whole cop less flak about ‘unhealthy-ness’ (for lack of a better word) than those who HAVE made a change in their life and dropped the pounds and then proceed to be labeled too ‘skinny’ or looking ‘sick’. More like sick of looking the same. Everyday i hear “you’re too skinny locky, you’l fade away into nothing soon”. God that annoys me. Then when i say i still want to lose an inch or two off my waist they will stare at me like im taking this too far. Shoot me for wanting to look good shirtless…
March 9th, 2010 at 5:30 am
@Lachlan I think those comments will fade away when U have lost those 2 inches and then take ur shirt off
And if it brings any comfort.. pretty few people know about AI and caloriesVScalories. Around here in Finland atleast. Im fortunate to be one of them!
March 9th, 2010 at 10:20 am
This has been a *constant* issue for me.
In all fairness, it has not been the physicians (male or female) accusing me of being anorexic (I think in Oklahoma theyre just relieved to have a healthy patient thats not morbidly obese, diabetic, chain smoker, alcoholic, whatever)– its been the nurses.
The worst experience Ive ever had: I had a staph infection, and had to take some pretty hard-core antibiotics. Antibiotics make me violently ill (take one dose, Im hurling 30 minutes later). So I tried the pills they wanted me to take, and proceeded to throw up all night. I dragged myself back to the doc the next day for a shot (antibiotics dont work if you puke them up), and the nurse I interacted with was more concerned with “When is the last time you ate?” and “Do you go for long periods of time not eating like this?” and “Do you find yourself feeling faint like this, but still not eating?” “Do you normally get sick after you eat?” than getting me re-hydrated and the goddamn antibiotics.
Finally a physicians assistant saved me with an IV… but as I was leaving the nurse chastised me with “You really need to eat more often.”
*blink*
March 9th, 2010 at 10:51 am
I have no interest in your Venus index, but having gone from obese (BMI ~ 34) to just barely normal (BMI ~ 24.9), I have to listen to a lot of people tell me to stop losing. Um, hello, I will know when I’m not chubby anymore, and it’s not now. I’m not trying to be any motherf$^^* Venus, just not flabby. Is that so wrong? When you’re size 18+, size 8 seems tiny, but now that I’m here, it’s still chubby.
March 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
John, your “friend” sounds hot.
March 9th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
There could be lots of different reasons for these reactions, like jealousy, mom wants to feed and nurture her child, a sincerely held- if ignorant- belief that one is truly underweight, etc. In at least some cases, I think a new look can take some getting used to. This doesn’t apply if someone has seen you for the first time (like a doctor, nurse, stranger.) But it could apply to someone who saw you before, and sees the “new you” for the first time.
E.g., Alton Brown (he hosts a show on the Food Network here in the States,) lost around 50-60 pounds. I watched some of his old shows, and then I saw him after the weight loss, and I must admit that my first reaction was that his face looked a little “gaunt.” Now, if he looked *exactly* like that the whole time, I doubt I would’ve thought twice about it. I know he doesn’t look bad or unhealthy, or worse than before. He just looked different, and took me by surprise a little bit.
Losing 50, 75, 100 pounds is a very big change in one’s appearance. I would be interested to know if there’s any change in a person’s reaction after having some time to adjust to that new look. I would bet in at least some cases they would feel differently. But it might take a while.
Maybe there’s an evolutionary reason for this negative reaction. Losing a lot of weight all of a sudden can be a bad thing. It could mean starvation or disease. Pure speculation on my part, heh heh.
March 9th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Jordan,
Yeah there might be some evolutionary thing to it. I suppose it makes sense that watching someone actually starve to death would evoke a strong reaction. Who knows, maybe we’ve got a built in alarm for weight loss as a signal of a famine/starvation…evolutionary psychology is just retrofitting reactions we have now with theories of what environmental factors that might have caused them in the past.
Interesting thought experiment.
JB
March 9th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
and also consider what might be the outcome of a consultation even if your doctor is professional, conscientious, and concerned enough with health and fitness to keep up on the current state of the field, and has read the following research (from an article titled “Fat epidemic linked to chemicals run amok”):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35315651/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition//
as a teaser, let me quote the very first line – “It’s not just about calories in versus calories out.”
this little attention grabber is then followed by – “If that were all it took to lose weight — eating a little less and exercising a little more — then weight loss would be as simple as grade-school math: Subtract Y from Z and end up with X.”
the article goes on to document research on “obesogens,” or “natural and synthetic chemicals known as endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs),” that apparently permeate our food supply and promote weight gain above and beyond the caloric content of food.
the authors’ starting question? “But if you’ve ever followed a diet program and achieved less than your desired result, you probably came away feeling frustrated, depressed, and maybe a bit guilty. What did I do wrong?”
their answer: it’s not your fault (i.e., you weren’t eating more calories than you were burning), its the mean non-caloric chemicals in your food…
the authors’ ultimate recommendation – to avoid obesogens, eat organic food.
as someone who has lost 50 lbs. of fat in 7 months by just watching my calories in vs. my calories out, and who has in the process eaten fast food with some regularity, not eaten organically, and violated any other number of these ‘expert’ rules, i take exception with these recommendations, still the authors do cite a substantial body of research in support of their recommendations/opinions…so if you were a concerned, conscientious doctor who would you tend to believe – me or these ‘experts?’
March 9th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
(and, by the way, my weight loss has been as simple as grade school math – for the most part, given that i tracked my daily calorie intake and expenditures, i have known more or less precisely what i was going to lose week to week using addition, subtraction and a little division)
March 9th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Looking forward to learn about the venus index.
Michelle Legg
March 10th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Shea,
Great comment. If the doctor has never lost weight or reviewed the weight loss research in depth then their opinion isn’t much better than anyone else. In many cases they may not need to lose weight so there is no reason for them to be aware of the process.
This is an interesting issue because weight loss is intimately tied to health…doctors are intimately tied to health…so people get their lines crossed and assume then that doctors must also be weight loss experts. Not true.
I’m sure that many of them get the basic principle of eating less and exercise, but this isn’t a rule or anything you should expect your physician to be completely up to date on.
JB
March 11th, 2010 at 10:31 am
[...] This problem is so systemic that even well intentioned health care practitioners are also promoting this sort of unfounded ‘danger’ (as we discussed in this previous post ->Does Your Doctor Know Best) [...]