Do I look “Skinny”?

Here are some pics of me at my lightest weight in the past 15 years, I”m about 179-183lbs in these pics and my buddies rip on me for being “Skinny” or “tiny” now…Do I really look “skinny”?

 

John Barban Adonis Index

In this pic I'm about 180lbs

John Barban Adonis Index Abs

Some abs

John Barban Back Adonis Index

A back single Bicep Shot

 

Guys who are trying to gain muscle make the mistake of assuming you need to be really heavy to be really muscular.

I’m 6’0 tall and around 180lbs in these pictures which puts me in the ‘normal’ BMI range as well.

It’s common for guys who workout to gain muscle to be in the overweight or even obese BMI ranges and they usually attribute their bodyweight to the fact that they’re carrying more muscle and hence the reason why they’re overweight or obese (as per the BMI standard)

But what they might not want to admit is that they still have 20-30lbs of fat to lose and if they lost it they’d be right back down to the ‘normal’ BMI range (just like I am in these pictures)

Sure I could ‘bulk up’ to 200lbs and lose all of my definition and I’d look much bigger in a t-shirt…but as soon as the shirt comes off it would be obvious that much of that extra weight is just fat.

This is the difference between being ‘shirt on big’ and ‘shirt off big’. Most guys are trapped in the ‘shirt on’ big mode trying to be heavier and heavier and end up getting fatter and fatter.

The truth is that the leaner you are the bigger you look (without hiding behind clothes)

So the choice is yours, do you want to be shirt on big or shirt off big?

John

 

Posted by johnbarban in Weight Loss
Tags: bulking and cutting, looking skinny, shirt off big, shirt on big, Weight Loss |31 Comments

31 Responses to “Do I look “Skinny”?”

  1. Dan Gaston Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    John,

    Having only started following your blog over the last few months as I began my own attempt at changing my dietary and fitness lifestyle (24lbs lost over the last 2 months through simple diet and exercise changes), I’ve found most of your posts on diet and exercise quite informative.

    That said your last several posts, which have strayed into psychology and to an extent evolutionary biology (the revulsion to excess body fat posts), have been, to put it bluntly, less informative and in my opinion, off the mark in a few ways.

    While I think you have a point (often there is a jealousy effect to the comments you are likely to receive while losing weight), your posts seem to stress this over the very real fact that there ARE people who become addicted to weight loss and fitness. Particularly in the medical community a doctor or nurse is more likely to come across someone who has body dysmorphic disorder, self-image problems, or eating disorders than someone who is already fit but looking to lose just that little extra to get their perfect bodybuilder body or whatever.

    I should also point out that there is no ideal weight at which someone will “look their best”, only at which they will think they look their best. In most cases this probably also matches up pretty closely with them looking their best to other people as well, but this is not always the case (body dysmorphia and people with eating disorders being prime examples).

    Everyone is going to have their own particular “ideal” weight/body fat percentage/any other physical feature that they like to see in others. While this is shaped to a large degree by our biology and our evolutionary history, it is also shaped dramatically by our culture and the “ideals” of those around us. I thought that was very much overlooked in your previous postings on excess body fat and our reaction to it.

  2. johnbarban Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Dan,

    I agree that a health care practitioner may come into contact with some people with body dysmorphia issues although I would highly doubt those people represent the majority of their clients (to be clear my stories are referring to GP’s who see 100′s of regular people without a real psychological body image issue and just want to lose a few pounds)

    If you’ve read the Adonis Effect book you’ll know that there is extensive research on the ideal body shape and that it’s not as culturally different as one might assume and it’s within a relatively close range for most people in most cultures (for both men and women)

    Sure each person will look unique when they’re at their ideal size…but most of us have a pretty narrow range when we look our best, and above and below this range we’ll be less attractive than when we’re in the middle of it. The cultural differences aren’t that dramatic either.

    Again this isn’t my opinion, this has been studied and repeated in many studies in many cultures.

    The ideal look isn’t a pinpoint bodyfat % or weight, but it is likely to be within a narrow range (perhaps 10-15lbs over or under for a 6’0 tall man)

    John

  3. Anthony Ramos Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Dan:

    I am quite sure that far fewer individuals are at risk for too much exercise than are at risk for too little, therefore, your condemnation is a tad harsh….

    Further, as someone who has literally been castigated and told I’m “an idiot” and know nothing about fitness for revealing how Eat Stop Eat (ESE) has helped me, I can tell you that the persecution of people getting fitness results is VERY real, and is much more prevalent than your workout addicts.

    “I should also point out that there is no ideal weight at which someone will “look their best”

    Check out AdonisEffect.com.

    John and his business partners actually have shown study after study from graduate sexual attraction journals that your above statement is patently incorrect. While individuals and cultures may differ from time to time on attraction preferences (little bigger, little smaller), unless this research is all completely false, I think John and the Brad’s have shown categorically that there is certainly a preponderance of women that prefer men in the Adonis-shaped range.

  4. Miika Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Yes I think u look “skinny”, not skinny :)

    Are Pilon and Howard going to take similar set pics?

  5. Andrew Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    I don’t know if you look skinny or not. Height? Still waiting on the leg pics (although, I know that’s not entirely important for the AI).

    I guess I just don’t see how you’re doing it. You have more muscle than me up top, we are similar in body fat, yet I outweigh you by 10 lbs (I’m 5’11″). The only thing I can figure is that my soccer legs are just gigantic.

  6. Alex Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    I hate the word “skinny”. It’s such an ambiguous, over used term that could have 5 different psychological impacts on 5 different people. For a lot of people, it simply means the absence of an obvious gut. For some, it means early Chris Rock-skinny; being a rail. It could mean having a narrow profile, but still being soft and devoid of muscle. And for the bodybuilding crowd, it could mean not being unrealistically giant. So, it’s hard to tell what people mean when they use the word.

    You have a sick taper, John.

  7. johnbarban Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Andrew,

    I’m 6’0 tall. Leg circumference are about 24 inches (thickest part of thighs), So not huge, but not small. You could very well have much larger legs than me which might make up some weight difference. Also this is a fasted weight. I actually weigh more like 181lbs or so when I’m not fasted.

    JB

  8. Jennifer Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Hey there, You certainly don’t look “skinny” to me. When I picture someone as being skinny, they are are shaped like a string bean. You’re far from that!

  9. Justin M Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    John holy sh!t you look jacked!!! Nice work buddy!

  10. Andrew M Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    John,

    I’m now 35 pounds lighter than I was almost 4 months ago thanks to you, Brad, and Pilon. I get the exact same comments all the time since I started especially now that I’m so much leaner, I’m only 5’9 and I’m still far from my goal body fat percentage, I’m currently 205 pounds and since I started using the adonis index I have not lost any measurable amount of shoulder size currently 53 inches and I STILL get called skinny. My remedy? I just stopped caring about what all the people that knew me very well said and started paying more attention to what the ladies think and all the looks I’m getting now. HAHA!

  11. Steve Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    John I think you look Great. If your skinny, I wished I was skinny like you! I wished ESE worked for me but I have a desk job and I think about food all day on fasting day and it drives me crazy. So I just try to eat less each meal just until satisfied and don’t eat after 6pm. Trying to find different ways to cut calories. my waist is stuck on 37 inches. My wife is one of these thin people that can eat 2000 calories a day and stay at 130 lbs. I have to watch every crumb. I am new, I would like to know how much you workout?

  12. johnbarban Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Steve,

    Thanks for the props.

    I train 4 days per week. Might do a added day of walking or light cardio.

    Our weight training sessions are pretty intense and my heart rate is up for almost the entire workout so I’m getting some sort of cardiovascular benefit during my weight workouts as well.

    During the summer I do significantly more outdoor stuff like walking, and running.

    JB

  13. Dave Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    You don’t look skinny at all to me. What are your feelings about fiber in our diets and how much do we need? Is this something we should base some of our calories around getting enough of on a daily basis?

  14. johnbarban Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Dave,

    You can if you want. I think it’s easier to try and eat a interesting variety of food more than trying to hit a specific number of fiber, or carbs, or protein etc. Most of these things take care of themselves if you eat with variety.

    JB

  15. Jay Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    I used to believe the bulking advice in the magazines, now I weigh 190 but in photos would look skinnier than you do!

    Random note: I hate going into forums like at tmuscle where people post up pics similar to yours and these guys will have photos of themselves looking stronger and healthier than 99% of the population and probably as close to being as big as they can naturally and everyone on their tells them to go eat 5000 cals a day then come back when you’re “actually big”.

  16. Eddie Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 1:48 am

    You look good John. Keep up the great work.

  17. joe g Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 5:59 am

    Hi John..
    You dont look skinny at all, but i do believe you could still lose more body fat and go down to about 7-8% body fat. I think you are still a little of the 10% mark. But still looking good.
    I get alot of the “you lost too much weight” But I know my body I am only 5’4″ but right now I weigh 136lbs and 124lbs is lean weight. I’m at around 10% body fat right now but in a few weeks I should be at around 7% body fat but trying to keep my lean weight at 124lbs.
    Not bad for a 43 yr old guy..

  18. biggahboy Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 6:28 am

    Nah you not skinny, you look like a Superhero, or like a Captain America or something like that

  19. Lachlan Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Alex Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    I hate the word “skinny”. It’s such an ambiguous, over used term that could have 5 different psychological impacts on 5 different people. For a lot of people, it simply means the absence of an obvious gut. For some, it means early Chris Rock-skinny; being a rail. It could mean having a narrow profile, but still being soft and devoid of muscle. And for the bodybuilding crowd, it could mean not being unrealistically giant. So, it’s hard to tell what people mean when they use the word.

    x2 to that. I’ve gotten to the point where i almost take offense to people calling me skinny, because its so meaningless and is neither a compliment or pun and it happens on a daily basis at work. It’s just such a stupid word.

  20. Wood Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    I think You can still make your waist tighter (maybe not the good word and maybe its just seems so because of the shadows) I have similar waist line (but more sand-glass like, because I have more fat around) do You think its genetical or can be removed absolutely?

  21. Donatello Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Wood, I agree. I think in today’s society the revelation of a 6pac ab seems much more desirable than just achieving the AI. having said that if john goes for a tighter waist and his abs show through he will definitely have a hot body. i wonder if having a smaller waist (and consequently a smaller shoulder to fit the golden ratio) will have a better effect, esp if the 6 pac can be seen.

  22. ERV Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Leg circumference are about 24 inches…
    Heh. Your thighs are about as big as my waist. I dont think Im legally allowed to call you skinny.

  23. Dan Gaston Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    johnbarban Says:
    March 9th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    “Dan,

    I agree that a health care practitioner may come into contact with some people with body dysmorphia issues although I would highly doubt those people represent the majority of their clients (to be clear my stories are referring to GP’s who see 100’s of regular people without a real psychological body image issue and just want to lose a few pounds)”

    I agree that people with severe body image issues are probably in the minority of people that a GP will see, but I also think that people who are generally healthy but just want to lose a few extra pounds to achieve their ideal weight are also probably a minority. I was only commenting on the likelihood of someone falling into either of these groups being seen by a GP and their relative proportions. I would think that the former would outnumber the latter but I could be wrong. I am sure the largest group of people seen by a GP would be those who really should lose, at the very least, a few extra pounds. Perhaps it is this overwhelming majority of generally unfit people which is going to colour the reaction of many health professionals to those that they see as being generally already quite fit that gives them a tendency to potentially worry about them falling into the “body image issues” category. It’s just a thought really. Not discounting that discrimination exists, just a hypothesis as to why this might be.

    “If you’ve read the Adonis Effect book you’ll know that there is extensive research on the ideal body shape and that it’s not as culturally different as one might assume and it’s within a relatively close range for most people in most cultures (for both men and women)

    Sure each person will look unique when they’re at their ideal size…but most of us have a pretty narrow range when we look our best, and above and below this range we’ll be less attractive than when we’re in the middle of it. The cultural differences aren’t that dramatic either.

    Again this isn’t my opinion, this has been studied and repeated in many studies in many cultures.

    The ideal look isn’t a pinpoint bodyfat % or weight, but it is likely to be within a narrow range (perhaps 10-15lbs over or under for a 6?0 tall man)”

    Oh I know that the data is out there, a friend of mine has done some similar studies. I guess to me a +/- 10-15lb range doesn’t seem that narrow for a man at 6’0″. My wording was probably a little sloppier than I intended. I think my main point is that while the data supports the Adonis Index I think that the data indicates preferences. Falling outside of that preference range isn’t necessarily equal to revulsion.

    I would also think that the data, including historical accounts, would indicate that this preference range has fluxuated for men’s perception of women more so then men but I don’t know what your Venus Index work says about that and what the ranges would be.

  24. johnbarban Says:
    March 10th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Dan,

    Ok I’m following you now and that is what I suspected your point was.

    I too could have been more precise with my wording. When I used the word repulsive I could have explained that it was in reference to a scale/continuum of increasing bodyfat…in other words 5 pounds overweight is hardly noticeable, 15 is still no big deal, 30 pounds is starting to noticeably affect the look and shape of a body…60 pounds is really affecting your look (angles and curves that define you as a man or woman start to disappear) and by all accounts reducing your attractiveness, 100 pounds overweight will render most people an amorphous sphere devoid of any resemblance of the original curves and shapes that define a man or a woman. At these extremely high levels of bodyfat men and women start to look the same, just big and round.

    So my point was to illustrate this progression of gaining fat towards this undefined genderless looking shape.

    JB

  25. Dan Gaston Says:
    March 11th, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Hi John,

    I follow your point no as well and totally agree.

  26. BMI charts - what is all the fuss about? | JohnBarban.com Says:
    March 12th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    [...] these pictures -> DO I LOOK SKINNY? I’m well within the normal BMI range…and I don’t think I look too small or [...]

  27. Draino Says:
    March 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Weird, when I was your weight I had visible abs (<10% bodyfat) and I think I was smaller than you appear here. Mind if I ask your waist measurement? Is your limb length far from average?

  28. johnbarban Says:
    March 12th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Draino,

    my waist is about 32 inches (give or take half an inch depending on hydration/food for the day)

    Limb length I think is pretty standard…

    JB

  29. Kyle Blinder Clunies-Ross Says:
    March 13th, 2010 at 5:19 am

    Hey John,

    you skinny? well it sounds more like jealousy, or people with weird aesthetical standarts. I think you look close to perfection, very nice pecs, perfect v shape, and I see you are on your way to an 8 pac! YOur muscle volume is great and you body fat percentual is very close to my personal ideal ( about 7%).

    I am a fan of eat stop eat and this is going to be my lifestyle from now on. And I might buy the Adonis index someday!

  30. Emmanuel Says:
    June 26th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    I am 250 pounds,I think I am a mesomorph man,right now i’m trying to lose weight and achive my adonis index.I am curently doing p90x program at the moment and i’m trying to keep my calories intake at 1500 calories.My measuresment are 56 inches for shoulders and 43 for waist.How long do you think it’s going to take me to get to my adonis index? And is there any way to accelerate the process?

  31. The Only Downside Is the Need for New Clothes Says:
    January 9th, 2012 at 7:02 am

    [...] if you are working out this sort of weight can look good in shirt that perception drastically changes when you take it [...]

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